I'm childfree and many times I don't like the online childfree environment because of that. Of course it is a minority, but still, people should have more empathy for others, at least. Especially the people who advocate that children shouldn't be allowed at some places. It's so discriminatory. Why make the life of mothers more difficult than they already are? As you said, especially the weddings! WTF
I don't universally love kids, not even my own (I was not a fan of the toddler years) but I LOVE it when I hear kids below my window kicking a ball or when they race along the via Garibaldi on their little scooters (Which are not technically allowed in Venice, but they are tolerated in my part of town)
As a broad generalization, small children are integrated into life in Italy. They are in restaurants and in the summer they stay up very late by American standards. I think it's just great.
I absolutely love kids, but I remember one naughty little boy who insisted on kicking the back of my seat all the way from Britain to Germany while his mother read magazines - a request to get him to stop netted me about five minutes of peace, until Mom's attention drifted back into the glossy pages and the incessant kicking resumed. If his mother had been paying attention to HIM, he would probably have been better behaved (and sitting still during a long plane ride was difficult enough for ME to tolerate, so I understand where he's coming from). We were flying to Germany for my brother-in-law's wedding. When about a dozen little kids suddenly spilled into the aisles during the service, I thought it was kind of cute - luckily, the bride and groom agreed! 😁 Children are pretty awesome, even if they sometimes torture adults when they get bored...
I haven't really noticed this becoming more of a thing but it doesn't surprise me if it has. I am child free by choice but I've no issue with children being outside of the home. They have to learn how to socialise and behave outside somehow. Locking them up at home, isn't going to achieve that.
I feel this in my bones. Modern attitudes towards children are very, very wrong, and you make so many excellent points in this post. Thank you. I have a two-year-old who is finding his way in the world and it makes me so sad and angry to think about the people we've had to encounter thus far who, for whatever reason, feel like their right to exist outweighs my son's. It fucking doesn't.
Children deserve compassion, respect, patience and kindness, just like all of us. They are lovely little souls exploring the wonders of the world, and yes, they're going to express themselves - the good, bad and the ugly - sometimes. The fact that so many people feel its their GOD GIVEN RIGHT to child-free environments because THEY can't deal with close proximity to children says more about them than it does children who are simply behaving as children should.
I need a witty and cutting retort for dealing these people and their inevitable tuts and side eyes, so any ideas, let me know! 😄
Ohhhh this is so fantastic, Nia. You really nailed the nuance of this debate. As you know, I have a toddler - but I am not the most child-friendly person. However, I do resent the strange attitudes people have towards children, and the huge emphasis on behaviour. We view children through an adult lens and expect them to be able to process emotions and thoughts in the same way.
Astute observations. I really believe some of it is an overreaction to the pressures of having kids (as someone else pointed) but it’s also a gross neglect and selfishness on our part as collective adults. As corny as it sounds, kids are the future and it’s a bit sad that we aren’t mindful of how we behave around them, especially in public “chil-friendly spaces l“ but annoyed with their presence in these spaces. It’s one thing if you’re in a concert, bar or a club, but I feel so bad for parents who think they have to be apologetic when their baby cries on a train or flight. On the other hand that uncle or aunty talking so loudly on the phone has no remorse! lol
Astute observations. I really believe some of it is an overreaction to the pressures of having kids (as someone else pointed) but it’s also a gross neglect and selfishness on our part as collective adults. As corny as it sounds, kids are the future and it’s a bit sad that we aren’t mindful of how we behave around them, especially in public “chil-friendly spaces l“ but annoyed with their presence in these spaces. It’s one thing if you’re in a concert, bar or a club, but I feel so bad for parents who think they have to be apologetic when their baby cries on a train or flight. On the other hand that uncle or aunty talking so loudly on the phone has no remorse! lol
I wonder if this trend is an overcorrection to the pressures of having children, at least for those who choose to be child-free. Hopefully, it will stop being quite so popular. This is semi-related, but it's also interesting how much ire there still is for people who choose to be child-free. I remember a few years ago there was some piece that went around talking about how women with children can't be friends with women who don't have children, particularly those who choose not to have children. My best friend got so upset, she wrote a whole manifesto about it because our relationship has never wavered after she's had kids. Her kids are some of my favorite humans. I don't know exactly where I'm going with this beyond, I DO see what you're talking about even amongst some of my friends. I just don't really get it.
Great post! Reminds me of a concept I’ve discussed with my kids about a million times: all feelings are valid, all behaviours are not. I understand that lots of childfree adults have strong negative feelings related to kids, for reasons. Doesn’t make it okay to be mean to the kids themselves though. And definitely doesn’t make you cool or edgy, lol.
I'm childfree and many times I don't like the online childfree environment because of that. Of course it is a minority, but still, people should have more empathy for others, at least. Especially the people who advocate that children shouldn't be allowed at some places. It's so discriminatory. Why make the life of mothers more difficult than they already are? As you said, especially the weddings! WTF
I don't universally love kids, not even my own (I was not a fan of the toddler years) but I LOVE it when I hear kids below my window kicking a ball or when they race along the via Garibaldi on their little scooters (Which are not technically allowed in Venice, but they are tolerated in my part of town)
As a broad generalization, small children are integrated into life in Italy. They are in restaurants and in the summer they stay up very late by American standards. I think it's just great.
I absolutely love kids, but I remember one naughty little boy who insisted on kicking the back of my seat all the way from Britain to Germany while his mother read magazines - a request to get him to stop netted me about five minutes of peace, until Mom's attention drifted back into the glossy pages and the incessant kicking resumed. If his mother had been paying attention to HIM, he would probably have been better behaved (and sitting still during a long plane ride was difficult enough for ME to tolerate, so I understand where he's coming from). We were flying to Germany for my brother-in-law's wedding. When about a dozen little kids suddenly spilled into the aisles during the service, I thought it was kind of cute - luckily, the bride and groom agreed! 😁 Children are pretty awesome, even if they sometimes torture adults when they get bored...
I haven't really noticed this becoming more of a thing but it doesn't surprise me if it has. I am child free by choice but I've no issue with children being outside of the home. They have to learn how to socialise and behave outside somehow. Locking them up at home, isn't going to achieve that.
I feel this in my bones. Modern attitudes towards children are very, very wrong, and you make so many excellent points in this post. Thank you. I have a two-year-old who is finding his way in the world and it makes me so sad and angry to think about the people we've had to encounter thus far who, for whatever reason, feel like their right to exist outweighs my son's. It fucking doesn't.
Children deserve compassion, respect, patience and kindness, just like all of us. They are lovely little souls exploring the wonders of the world, and yes, they're going to express themselves - the good, bad and the ugly - sometimes. The fact that so many people feel its their GOD GIVEN RIGHT to child-free environments because THEY can't deal with close proximity to children says more about them than it does children who are simply behaving as children should.
I need a witty and cutting retort for dealing these people and their inevitable tuts and side eyes, so any ideas, let me know! 😄
Ohhhh this is so fantastic, Nia. You really nailed the nuance of this debate. As you know, I have a toddler - but I am not the most child-friendly person. However, I do resent the strange attitudes people have towards children, and the huge emphasis on behaviour. We view children through an adult lens and expect them to be able to process emotions and thoughts in the same way.
Astute observations. I really believe some of it is an overreaction to the pressures of having kids (as someone else pointed) but it’s also a gross neglect and selfishness on our part as collective adults. As corny as it sounds, kids are the future and it’s a bit sad that we aren’t mindful of how we behave around them, especially in public “chil-friendly spaces l“ but annoyed with their presence in these spaces. It’s one thing if you’re in a concert, bar or a club, but I feel so bad for parents who think they have to be apologetic when their baby cries on a train or flight. On the other hand that uncle or aunty talking so loudly on the phone has no remorse! lol
Astute observations. I really believe some of it is an overreaction to the pressures of having kids (as someone else pointed) but it’s also a gross neglect and selfishness on our part as collective adults. As corny as it sounds, kids are the future and it’s a bit sad that we aren’t mindful of how we behave around them, especially in public “chil-friendly spaces l“ but annoyed with their presence in these spaces. It’s one thing if you’re in a concert, bar or a club, but I feel so bad for parents who think they have to be apologetic when their baby cries on a train or flight. On the other hand that uncle or aunty talking so loudly on the phone has no remorse! lol
I wonder if this trend is an overcorrection to the pressures of having children, at least for those who choose to be child-free. Hopefully, it will stop being quite so popular. This is semi-related, but it's also interesting how much ire there still is for people who choose to be child-free. I remember a few years ago there was some piece that went around talking about how women with children can't be friends with women who don't have children, particularly those who choose not to have children. My best friend got so upset, she wrote a whole manifesto about it because our relationship has never wavered after she's had kids. Her kids are some of my favorite humans. I don't know exactly where I'm going with this beyond, I DO see what you're talking about even amongst some of my friends. I just don't really get it.
Great post! Reminds me of a concept I’ve discussed with my kids about a million times: all feelings are valid, all behaviours are not. I understand that lots of childfree adults have strong negative feelings related to kids, for reasons. Doesn’t make it okay to be mean to the kids themselves though. And definitely doesn’t make you cool or edgy, lol.